6.5 Creedmoor vs 308

This seems to come up a lot so I thought I’d try to make a comparison for anyone interested. 

First, this is really just a comparison of ballistics using two sets of data.  You can change projectiles and velocities either way, and get different results.  I used data from two match rifles that are/were used in practical precision type matches. 

There can be all sorts of criteria a person uses to decide what they want to shoot.  A hunter that only hunts out a few hundred yards and only takes one shot at a time is likely to have a different choice than a person setting up a rifle for practical precision matches that run from 300 yards to 1200 yards, on average.   Overall, just pick what fits your need. 

One thing that can matter for some uses is the ability to spot your own shot.  When all things are equal, meaning we use the same weight rifle and both have a good brake, the 6.5 Creedmoor will be easier to spot shots with, as compared to a 308. 

Ammo availability, ammo pricing, intended use, what you already own, barrel life, and all sorts of other criteria might matter to you, so just think it through and pick what matters most for your use and preference. 

As competitors, some folks shoot with 308 because of the class they want to shoot in.  We see a lot more of the 6 mm and 6.5 mm calibers/cartridges used overall.  I shoot a 6.5 SLR myself and push a 140 Hybrid at 2915 fps.  That gives me good ballistics.  I can still get beat at any match by a better shooter running a 308.  Cartridge and caliber choice matter of course, but the shooter’s ability also weighs in heavily.   

This attempt is more related to ballistics, in an attempt to remove the shooter from the equation.  I made these charts to show inches, as opposed to showing mil or moa in an attempt to make it easy for folks to see the difference.   You will find many load variations to compare so if these two aren’t a good comparison for your use, you can run the numbers the same way on your solver of choice.  As you compare these, consider your target size and your personal use and abilities.  

Generally when we make these sorts of choices, we also consider what I like to call 'forgiveness'.  So, to make an example a 6.5 Creedmoor can be more forgiving when we don't have everything perfect, such as a wind call or our target distance at 1000 yards.  Forgiveness at longer distance is where we start to see some bigger differences and you can use data to decide how much those differences do, or don't, matter to you for your personal use.  The bottom charts attempt to make a comparison as related to 'forgiveness'.  

This data comes from Applied Ballistics Analytics using custom curves.  This is all at 'sea level' with a 10 mph wind.  

6.5 Creedmoor running a 140 Berger Hybrid at 2787 fps

308 running a Sierra TMK at 2769 fps

I'm just going to make three comparisons, but you can refer to the charts to compare any distances you are interested in.  

300 yards

6.5 Creedmoor at 300 yards has 13.13" of drop and 5.72" of windage.  

308 at 300 yards has 13.74" of drop and 7.27" of windage.  

Our difference of drop between the two is .61" with no practical advantage due to normal target sizes or the vital sizes of many animals we hunt.  

Our difference of windage between the two is 1.55" with no practical advantage due to normal target sizes or the vital sizes of many animals we hunt.

The 6.5 Creedmoor at 300 yards has 1718 ft-lbs of energy and is traveling at a velocity of 2351 fps.

The 308 at 300 yards has 1916 ft-lbs of energy and is traveling at a velocity of 2220 fps.  

Comparing all of the differences and taking into account any possible errors we make in calling our wind or our distance to target, the two are very close at 300 yards.  

700 yards

6.5 Creedmoor at 700 yards has 120.40" of drop and 36.36" of windage.  

308 at 700 yards has 135.82" of drop and 47.94" of windage.  

Our difference of drop between the two is 15.42".

Our difference of windage between the two is 11.58".

The 6.5 Creedmoor at 700 yards has 1038 ft-lbs of energy and is traveling at a velocity of 1827 fps.  

The 308 at 700 yards has 975 ft-lbs of energy and is traveling at a velocity of 1584 fps.  

1000 yards

6.5 Creedmoor at 1000 yards has 306.63" of drop and 83.25" of windage.  

308 at 1000 yards has 368.49" of drop and 114.16" of windage.  

Our difference of drop between the two is 61.86".

Our difference of windage between the two is 30.91".

The 6.5 Creedmoor at 1000 yards has 684 ft-lbs of energy and is traveling at a velocity of 1483 fps.  

The 308 at 1000 yards has 548 ft-lbs of energy and is traveling at a velocity of 1188 fps.  

The next charts also come from Applied Ballistics Analytics, this portion is called WEZ (Weapon Employment Zone).  

You can look to the left of the chart to see what is being used as variables.  The data you see on the left is comparing the data as if we are off in our calculations by that amount.  It also takes into account the accuracy of the firearm and things like our extreme spread.  As an example, I entered 1 mph of wind.  That means in this example we are off on our wind call by only 1 mph of wind.  The hit chance decreases rapidly if I change that number to 2 mph.  

I tend to think of the WEZ analysis as my chance of a first round hit.  If I'm able to spot my first shot I can then make a correction for the second shot.  There are many different ways to look at this data, so use it any way that interests you (or not at all for that matter). 

6.5 Creedmoor running a 140 Berger Hybrid at 2787 fps

308 running a Sierra TMK at 2769 fps

List of variables used

Using that list of variables, the first round hit percentage difference is 18.2% difference at 1000 yards.  

This is just one simple comparison.  You can compare your load or any other specific load data in the same way.  None of this is meant to say that anyone is wrong in their personal choice.  It's just an attempt to use some data to help in the discussion, for anyone looking for a comparison or looking to make a future choice.  There are many factors to consider in a choice, such as rifles chambered in your choice, proper barrel twist rates, ammo pricing, ammo availability, etc.  

For factory ammo and factory rifle shooters, the 308 and the 6.5 Creedmoor are comparable in ammo pricing and availability these days.  I handload most of my ammo these days and as far as components go, both the 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor are very well supported.  Excellent brass, projectiles, and powder choices are available for each.  

If factory ammo is the main driver in your choice, then compare what you can buy online.  If it matters to you, walk into your local store and see what's available.  Where I live, both 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 are easy to purchase, although that doesn't matter much to me.  

I hope that helps someone out there and just use whatever criteria matters most to you for your choice.  

Choosing Good Factory Ammo

The topic is huge and the methods are many….  so this is just a glimpse and one attempt to help.  I reload, but have customers that don’t so I have this discussion often enough.  Figure out the intended use first of all.  Learn about projectiles and what makes one better for hunting than another or what makes one better for long range shooters than another.  Hunting at short distance may change the choice versus shooting steel at 1200 yards, or you may find a good projectile for both uses.  I’m addressing this from a view of a person that may shoot practical precision type matches, or just want to enjoy shooting steel at the range over a good long distance.   

My two main uses for long range rifles are hunting and practical precision matches, to give some idea of my bias.  I'm using 6.5 Creedmoor as my example because it's a cartridge I discuss with a lot of customers and friends these days.  The same logic applies to other cartridges though.  One main difference between the Creedmoor and some other widely used cartridges is that the Creedmoor has many good factory options available to the practical precision shooter or the hunter. 

You can narrow the field by looking at what other folks are getting good results with.  If you don’t know where to begin to look… look to the shooting sports.  You’ll find that most folks shooting practical precision matches do reload, but there are some shooters using factory ammo.  Why look at what they are using..... well first be sure you are looking at good info from a person that understands what they are talking about, but the reason is because the good shooters at these matches want to do the best they can and often do their best to remove any variable that will decrease their chance of that.  If your main use is hunting be sure to talk with good hunters that you know will share good info with you.  On my last 6.5 Creedmoor barrel I ran through 800 rounds of PRIME ammo, because I wanted the brass.   I’m going to chamber a 6 Creedmoor barrel for use on a SwitchLug rifle and it’ll only run factory ammo for those times I want to shoot a match, but don’t have, or want to make, time to load first.   I’ll have good data to share with people that want to know the ups and downs of shooting factory ammo and there are lots of other shooters that will do the same.   Not every cartridge has as many options available when it comes to factory ammo.  Be sure you are getting good projectiles that will do what you want and be sure your rifle barrel twist will make good use the projectile choice.  

Order enough of each ammo type to really get a good idea of what they will do.  You can even start with the ammo you want to use most and see if it works for you or not as opposed to ordering more than one brand at a time.  One thing to keep in mind is that your velocity is likely to change some, especially over those first 75-150 rounds.  Another thing… give yourself time to do this the right way.  These days many folks rush the process way too much. 

What are you looking for…..  this is the part that can get complicated.  It’s easy to say a good group and that’s true.  There are many ways to study a group when comparing one to another to choose what’s best.  What I would hope for is a nice group that didn’t show more than an acceptable amount of vertical dispersion from a factory load.  The amount that’s acceptable is up to you.  When you shoot factory ammo you often have to compromise.  Generally, if you get a good factory ammo you are going to deal with a slower velocity or a powder that is more temperature sensitive than you’d hope.  There are some places to buy loaded ammo that produce excellent ammo, but you’ll certainly pay for it as compared to something like a PRIME or Hornady, for example.  This is not meant to say that PRIME and Hornady are bad choices.  I think, properly understood, they can do what a lot of people need.  There are other good brands and I’m just making an example with these two. 

Besides a good grouping, you would want the best extreme spread and standard deviation possible.  Some people skip this part when they use factory ammo.  You can have an acceptable group at 100 yards and not have a good ES or SD.  It will show up further down range though, so don't think that just because you have a good group at 100 yards you are good to go.  Some folks shoot at further distance to try to verify ES and SD, but I find that to be difficult for many shooters, generally speaking.  I believe a better answer for most folks is to get with someone that has a good chrono or buy one themselves.  I prefer the MagnetoSpeed, personally.  It's a good tool at a good price and it gives excellent data.  I also like that the company is so involved in the shooting sports and how they support the sports.  The main point though, is to be sure you are using a chrono that's providing good and helpful data.  

The chrono data is going to help you choose the better ammo for your rifle and it’s also going to help you collect velocity data so you can better engage targets at distance.  It’s also going to help you collect data on temperature sensitivity so you can properly correct for it, when needed.   Earlier I mentioned that your velocity is likely to change those first 75-150 rounds, but you can have a velocity change later on and you will likely have a velocity change as your barrel begins to near the end of its effective use.   So… a good chrono is a good tool to have for many reasons.  It’s good to check velocity, ES, and SD at times throughout the life of your barrel, for many reasons.    

Once you find a good ammo for your rifle, buy as much as you can from one lot.  Continue to verify everything even within that lot, but especially verify when you buy more ammo or change lots.  When you buy your ammo, look at each cartridge individually before you head to the range or whenever you can before shooting, but verify because eventually (if you shoot much) you’ll find something wrong and you’ll be glad you culled it. 

What happens when you have tried every good ammo choice and you can’t get a good answer…. well… it’s time to figure out what’s wrong with either you or the rifle system.  If it’s you… then you know you need to learn more and practice more.  If it isn’t you, or you have eliminated you as the problem, then you begin to look at what may be wrong, or needs altered, with the rifle to get the accuracy you want.  Maybe it’s not the barrel or ammo, but it’s the stock, base, rings, or scope (etc).  Maybe you had bad mirage that day, but didn’t understand how that can cause issues.  Some things are simple and others get complicated.  This is another big topic, so I won’t go into it more with this blog entry. 

A few other things… don’t be married to these things without verifying the data yourself.  The internet lies.  Test it for yourself.  Take a good class and learn how to use all of this information properly.  A good class isn’t cheap, but neither is wasting good ammo when you don’t even know what you don’t know.  Meet good shooters in your area and learn together with them.  Put yourself to the test and learn where you are weak.  Learn to make good use of tools available and have methods that back up your tools.  Have a backup for your backup plan.   I hope this helps someone and keep in mind that this is just one thought on choosing factory ammo and there are certainly many ways to skin that cat. 

6mm or 6.5mm

When we discuss practical precision shooting we often get down to 6mm or 6.5mm.  There are some folks shooting in different divisions or folks that just want to shoot 7mm, 30cal, or even some 223.  This is just meant to break down and show the differences in the two that are used the most by those top 100 competitors in the sport.  This doesn’t mean you have to choose what they do or choose for the same reasons they do.  It just means they are good at what they do and it might be worth looking into why they use what they do.
 

Velocity and Projectiles Used for Comparison

I broke these down by using a 6mm pushing a 105 Berger Hybrid and 3050 fps and a 6.5mm pushing a 140 Berger Hybrid at 2750 fps.  If you are safely able to and want to run a load that's faster in your rifle or if you want to check a different projectile, you can of course run different data for your own comparison purposes.

Basic Breakdown

Generally, we think of the 6mm as having a little less recoil and the 6.5mm as having a little better barrel life.  There is also the difference in energy on the longer shots.  So, the 6mm will be a little easier to use on barricades, but the 6.5mm will show impacts a little easier at those longer distances that we shoot.  Keep in mind that the majority of our shots are 800-900 yards and in and there aren’t as many of those longer shots out at 1200 yards or more.  Also, we are seeing more target flashers on those long distance targets and that will make it easier for ROs to spot impacts and that may push even more shooters to the 6mm side.  There are some cases that do a little better or worse for each caliber as far as velocity and barrel life.  The case and the pressure you load to will have something to do with how fast you shoot your barrel out; along with a few other things like how hard you push your rifle during a match or practice.  This is meant to be a generalized statement to explain why some folks choose 6mm and others want 6.5mm.  Also, keep in mind that when we discuss practical precision and recoil, we aren't referring to a recoil that hurts you or makes it unbearable to shoot.  Recoil, in this discussion, is meant as being easy to spot your own shots (or not), even when you are in a less than ideal shooting position.  Most shooters find it critical to be able to spot their own shots to make fast corrections.

Data Comparison

The data comparison was made using Applied Ballistics Analytics.  The custom curve was used for each of the projectiles.  The second page of data shows a hit percentage with variables introduced.  This is at 1000 yards (actually 999.563 yards).  The left hand side will show the variables that were used to get the data output.  

6mm Data

6.5mm Data

What does it mean?

First, you can look through the data for yourself and decide what it means to you.  Some of the things I notice are that the windage is very similar between the two.  Most of us consider the wind to be one of the harder factors to overcome.  Keep in mind the generalized differences that were listed above under 'Basic Breakdown'.  Often we say that the elevation isn't as important since we are able to so accurately predict that part of the equation.  There are times where the lesser drop of the 6mm is helpful.  Basically, it is more forgiving to any mistake we make or if any part of our data is off, such as distance to target.   

Another Comparison

For this blog entry I ran one more chart to compare.  Currently, I am shooting a 6.5mm that pushes a 140 Berger Hybrid at 2787 fps.  This barrel is at about 2200 rounds and hasn't shown any loss in velocity so far.  I have considered going to a 6.5 SAUM for my next barrel, but loading it 'slow' to attempt to get as good of barrel life as possible.  For this, I ran the 6.5 mm 140gr Berger Hybrid at 2950 fps.  There are folks running the 6.5 SAUM for practical precision, but I don't see it used nearly as often as the popular 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges.  I believe it would be a little more difficult to spot my own shots using this, as compared to my current choice.  

6.5mm 140gr Hybrid @ 2950 fps

When you compare the 6.5mm 140 Berger Hybrid at 2950 fps to the 6mm 105 Berger Hybrid at 3050 you see that they are very similar in both elevation and windage, with the 6.5mm carrying more energy.  This idea is appealing to me.  I'm not sure yet that I will give it a try, but the appeal is there especially if the barrel would have decent life.  

Conclusion

When you compare these things you can see why it's difficult for some folks to choose one over the other. Many shooters have a few match rifles. One person may set up a trainer in 223 that's set up similar to their match rifle. Another person may have a 6.5 SAUM for windy days or matches that concentrate more on the longer range side of things. Hopefully this data will help some folks that are looking for the basic differences between the 6mm and 6.5mm choice for practical precision.


There will be more blog entries in the future covering more long range topics. Thanks for reading and feel free to share this or my other blog entries if you think it will help someone.

What Gear?

When we first start shooting practical precision we have a lot of choices to make about what gear we want to use. For a lot of folks it's an aggravating process trying to figure out what they want to spend their hard earned money on.

Don't fall into the trap of buying gear without knowing if it fits your needs. Get to a match and let them know you are new so they can squad you up with folks that can and will help you. Every match I've been to, I've seen good folks sharing gear and methods with each other. If you can get out and try these things prior to your purchase, you'll know what fits your style or what style you want to build towards. If you can't make it to a match before you are ready to buy gear, at least get with the club you will shoot with or other local shooters so you can see gear, try gear, and get good recommendations.

I'm going to cover a lot of different types of gear, but I won't cover many of the brands available for each type. The goal here isn't to talk someone into using the same gear I do, but is to get folks some idea of what all can be useful at a match. There are plenty of brands to choose from with more coming out all the time. You may see things listed here that you'll never carry or you may carry things you don't see listed here.

You are only limited by your own imagination.  The best gear in the world won't make up for a lack of practice, training, and understanding of all pertinent data. Get out and shoot some club level matches and get to know other shooters. You'll be amazed what you can learn at a match and by calling and talking to other good people. A lot of good shooters make their own gear and many alter products to fit their needs, so always be thinking about what will work best for you as you see gear choices. Some gear isn't used as often as others, but when it's needed it makes a huge difference.

Rifles:

This is a huge topic, worthy of its own blog entry, but I'll skim over the gear side of things. If you want to read about caliber choices, I have another blog entry covering that.

The rifle needs to fit you. Some folks will prefer a stock and others will prefer a chassis. If you purchase a chassis or stock you can purchase one that either fits you properly or one that allows you to adjust the cheek weld and length of pull. There are ways to alter some stocks for better fitment with cheek weld and length of pull, if needed.  You'll want a detachable mag for practical precision matches and you'll shoot 5 to 10 rounds per stage normally and sometimes as many as 15 to 20.

Most practical precision shooters will make use of either a brake or a suppressor. This is another huge topic that will be left for another day. Just keep in mind that you'll most likely want a brake or a suppressor for a few different reasons. Being able to watch your own shots land is important for practical precision.

Many shooters will use a 2 round holder that is attached to the rifle. There are a few different brands on the market currently. The two I've used are the Short Action Precision and the Hoptic Quiver. The SAP 2 Round holder is very easy to attach and stays on by way of very good hook and loop. I see the SAP used the most. The Hoptic is metal and takes more work to install if one of the adapters doesn't fit your rifle, but it holds the rounds very securely and keeps the projectile protected. There is a photo below with a shooter behind the rifle, that shows the Hoptic 2 round holder.

Scopes are another big topic that will be covered in detail in a future blog. Get a good scope that has good glass, good mechanics, and the reticle you prefer. You need a good reticle that will allow you t properly measure and also for holding wind. It's better to save than to settle, when it comes to reliable and repeatable scopes.  

 

Pack:

There are a lot of good packs on the market to choose from. Some folks use a small pack and carry very little and others use a big pack and carry more. That's up to you, just remember you have to carry it around out there.

I prefer a pack that has a lot of pockets so I can put different gear in different pockets, making it quicker to find an item when needed. When I used a pack that only had a few pockets I ended up digging through the main compartment way too often to find what I needed. When you get to a stage you don't have much time to prepare so you need to be quick on the easy parts so you have more time to study the wind, listen to the stage brief, identify targets, and pay attention to other important factors.

Get a good pack that fits you well and is comfortable with nice straps. You'll have all of your gear, ammo, water, snacks, toilet paper, and possibly tools and a medical kit to carry. It gets heavy fast. Again, some folks only carry the most essential items and others carry all sorts of different items. It's up to you to choose.

On the front of the pack shown in the photo is a drop bag for brass, a pen, and a grease pen. In that photo my support bags (all 5 shown in the photo below) are all in the main compartment of the pack and that's generally how I store and transport my pack and gear. Once I'm at a match or in the field hunting, I get the bags out of the compartment and, using a carabiner, I attach them to that top handle for easy access.

Carry sunblock if you need it and use other good clothing to cover up your skin. Often, I can get covered up most places except for my hands (see photo above). At a club level match this isn't as big of a deal for me as it is when I go to a two or three day match. Same goes for cold weather and wet weather gear. Prepare for the elements.

Support Bags:

There are a lot of good bags on the market. Some folks use a lot of them and others use very few. Many shooters use bags to support their body for less movement and for placing the rifle on to steady up a shooting position. Most of these bags are extremely light weight. They take up space, but they don't weigh much.

As an example, in this video clip you can see how I make use of a rear bag for getting my arm steady against my body and how I use a medium sized bag under the rifle to get steady on the uneven posts of the barricades.

The biggest bag in the upper left of the photo is generally one I use under an arm, or to sit or stand on. The big bag is also useful under the butt-stock when shooting from a rooftop. The bag in the lower left (also shown in a pic on its own) is a medium sized bag and is one I use very often. I use it everywhere. That medium sized bag is my favorite and gets used under my arms, under the chassis, as a rear bag, and is just an all-around good 'catch all' bag. The medium sized bag is the the one under the chassis in the video above. The two smallest bags are rear bags for under the butt-stock. Each of those smaller bags gets used from time to time under the front of the chassis as well. One of the smaller bags is heavy and sturdy and the other is light weight. I choose the one to use by the stage design and if the ground is easy to maneuver on (if applicable). The bag at the upper right of the photo is a specialty bag. It's heavy, but very useful. The 'v' shape will lay over a pole or other small item like plywood and then gives a nice platform for shooting from. These are certainly not all needed or necessary and you may end up with all or none of these.

Sticks, Tripods, and Bipods:

There are a few different styles of sticks I see around.  The only set of sticks I've owned are the LuckettSticks (upper left of photo).  These sticks are easy to use, but take a little practice like many good tools.   The sticks cradle the front and rear of the rifle, getting rid of side to side muzzle movement.  You are left with movement up and down to contend with and there are many good methods used to get extremely steady from these sticks.  These are excellent for hunting and for practical precision matches.  

I don't use a tripod often, but I see them used a lot.  The most I've used mine was at a team match called Team Safari.  We used it a lot there.  Mine doesn't even make the trip with me when I go to a regular match, so far.  The carbon fiber tripod shown standing up is very light weight.  I've considered carrying it at all matches for helping spot and possibly for rear support on barricades.  The Bog Pod shown laying down is a bipod that I like, but haven't made use of in a match at all.  It's very fast, but I believe the LuckettSticks are serving the purpose I originally had in mind for the Bog Pod.

There are two main bipods I see used for practical precision, the Atlas and the Harris.  I like both and believe each has an upside.  Currently I carry two Harris Bipods, one much taller than the other.  The Atlas can lock legs into different angles, making it nice for using against some barricades or spanning shorter or longer gaps.  I mainly use a 6-9 inch Harris with swivel and leg notches.  I have added a part to allow me to make use of the Atlas feet and most often I use the spikes during a match.  I set my bipods up with quick detach devices because they will be in the way on some barricades and need to be removed quickly or for when I swap to the taller bipod.  There are some other great bipods on the market as well.  The two I've used most are the Atlas and the Harris.  Some folks like the ability to lock the Atlas legs into other angles, but I never made much use of that function when I used an Atlas.  I tend to use bags where others will use their Atlas angled.

Slings:

There are a lot of good slings on the market. The slings I see most often at matches are the SAP, Armageddon Gear, and the TAB Gear. The SAP sling is the sling at the top of the pic and it has an arm cuff. I don't use the arm cuff very often any more, but I do still use it, especially if I'm shooting sling only in unsupported positions. The Armageddon Gear sling uses bungee and a lot of folks prefer that method for building tension. 

More and more shooters are starting to use an adjustable sling that attaches to the belt. This is a method I like and use, especially from a tripod. The sling attaches at the front attachment point on the rifle and then attaches to the belt. It needs to be a good adjustable sling so you can pull the slack out to put tension in the right place to get steady.  These days I use the Wiebad Rip Cord sling most (not shown in the photo).  It is very fast to adjust and has a ton of adjustment available, to help in different positions.  It's also great for those that want to be able to attach their sling to their belt for use on obstacles or tripods.

Many matches require a sling for transport from one stage to the next. Some shooters use a sling on a lot of stages and others may only use the sling to carry the rifle.

Loaded Ammo Holders:

There are a lot of good ammo holders available. A lot of folks like the ammo holders that open up like a book and hold each round individually to ensure the ammo is well protected. A friend gave me a pencil bag to hold ammo and that's what I used first. Later on I got the bag shown in the photo and now I throw all of my ammo for the match (for that day) in that bag loose (same for pencil holder). Some people use the same plastic cases that they put their ammo in as they reload it.

Binoculars and Laser Range Finders: 

Some folks don't carry binoculars. I find it a lot easier to identify targets by first looking with my naked eyes and then moving to binoculars. I like 8x magnification, but would also be fine with 10x. Good clear binoculars really help with spotting targets and also for spotting hits/misses for other shooters.

There are some matches where you don't need a laser range finder and others where you do. Most of the practical precision matches I shoot are known distance target matches. Sometimes there will be a stage or even just a target within a stage that is an unknown distance. There are entire matches built around finding and ranging targets prior to engaging, if you find that more interesting. Competition Dynamics puts on these sorts of matches and I shot the Team Safari in that manner and plan to do so again each year. Some LRFs (laser range finders) aren't very helpful for practical precision. You'll find that many popular LRFs are only useful out to 500-700 yards and that just won't cut it for practical precision. There seems to be some very good competition in the LRF market with new models coming out. Hopefully we will see more and more good models available at good prices.

I currently carry a set of LRF binos from Steiner (M830R) that I've been happy with and I have the Sig Kilo 2200 as a back up.  I've used the Leica HD-B LRF binos a good bit and would also own those.  The LRF topic is very similar to scopes and will be covered in more detail in the future. 

Data:

There are a lot of shooters that don't understand how environmentals effect our long range shooting. Most folks understand wind and drop, but there are still a good number of people that don't understand how much DA (density altitude) and temperature can alter our point of impact.

There are many good fast ways to get your solution for targets at different ranges and different DA. The methods I use most are shown in the photo above. Most often, up to this point, I use my Kestrel for data during a match. I also have backups for that. I have Applied Ballistics on my phone, a Whiz Wheel for each rifle, and I build data cards for each rifle, for every 1000' of DA.

There are a lot of different phone apps for getting good solutions. I use and prefer Applied Ballistics with custom curves.  Geo Ballistics has a good program and weather meter at a very good price, for anyone that doesn't want to buy a Kestrel.  The apps I've used most are Applied Ballistics, Ballistics ARC (Geo Ballistics), TRASOL, Strelok Pro, and the Hornady app (listed in order of my personal preference). 

At times we may need to range without a LRF. It may be due to a stage where the rules don't allow a LRF, or just because we want to practice and be up to par without electronics. This gets into reticle choice some and I cover this more in depth in the 'MOA or Mil' blog if you want to read more about that. I keep the MilDot Master, a 3x5 card with my Mil Ranging math, and AB Toolbox on my phone for easy mil ranging.

Most shooters use some method for keeping data on them in an easy to see manner. I sometimes use a wrist coach (shown in the lower right of the photo). I carry 3x5 cards to write my data on and then put in the wrist coach for each stage. I also keep a grease pen for writing on the plastic cover of the wrist coach, if needed. Some people just use white medical tape or a cheap wrist coach from the sporting goods store and all of that is equally good. These days I mostly use a product that attaches to my rifle that you can write on and they can sit next to your scope for easy viewing.  Most versions are either flexible or have a joint that allows them to fold in, out of the way, when you don't need it.  Mine makes use of hook and loop so I can attach a small white board or a sleeve to hold cards. 

A lot of the best shooters I know only use their Kestrel to get DA and they do the rest with data cards. I still spend a lot of time on my Kestrel, but I can certainly see where that time could be better used reading wind and studying different land features.



There are so many different gear choices and ways to go about making your data and gear useful. The best ways I've found to learn other methods are to take a professional course and get to multiple matches. Get out and shoot some club level matches. Watch and learn. Talk to others and get involved. Borrow a bag for a stage and see if it fits for your style. Get out there and get shooting!






There will be more blog entries in the future covering more long range topics. Thanks for reading and feel free to share this or my other blog entries if you think it will help someone.

 

What caliber?

I'm going to cover a few parts of this topic for now and leave the rest for the future. This will be about practical precision and to a small degree, hunting.

There are many caliber choices and no one single right answer.

I'll start with practical precision. You'll find there are a few different concepts or styles followed in practical precision when it comes to caliber choices. The first thing I'd recommend is to see what the pros are using. Look at those top hundred or two hundred shooters and see what they choose. See if you can figure out why they picked that caliber. Most of the time they have made their way to the caliber they like after shooting through quite a few barrels.

There are a few ways to look at the different methods for what caliber to choose. One of the overall ideals is either choosing a caliber that is smaller (6mm) and faster, thus having less recoil or something a little bigger (6.5mm) that will hit the target a little harder at further distances. Generally, the smaller and faster 6mm caliber will make it easier for you to spot your shots (hits/misses) off of barricades or positions where you aren't as stable; while the 6.5mm will allow the RO to spot hits easier at distance.


Recoil:

This term is often misunderstood in the discussion of caliber choices. A lot of the time a person will say, or think, the recoil doesn't bother me so I don't have to be concerned with that. Most of the time when we are discussing recoil as related to practical precision we mean it more from the perspective of being able to watch your own shots land. Many of us find it critical to be able to see our own hit or miss on each shot so that we can decide how to correct for the next shot. If we choose a caliber that jumps up too much when we fire a shot it will keep us from being able to see where our shot lands and then we have no new information, to make a decision on, for the next shot. Even if we score a hit, we still want to know where we hit the plate so we know if we held a little too much wind, or not quite enough (and if we are a little high or a little low). We shoot from a lot of odd positions where we aren't as stable as we would be from the prone position. The lesser the recoil the better our chances are of seeing that shot, even at close distances. Lesser recoil also allows us to stay on target better, allowing for a faster follow-up shot. Weight of the rifle, brake or suppressor, and body position are just a few other things that will also have some effect on recoil.

Here is a short clip as an example of where/when recoil can matter. This was my last two shots on a 10 shot stage. I was down to the last 20 seconds to get the two shots off.

Why do most practical precision competitors choose 6mm and 6.5mm? 

First I'd like to say that not everyone does. There are different divisions and different types of matches that we all choose to shoot in and some folks will shoot 223, 308, and I see a few different 7mm calibers from time to time. Be sure to do some research and see where those calibers fit in if you are interested in competing in matches with them. I'll get more into specific cartridges and make specific examples a little further down.

The 6mm and 6.5mm projectiles have a nice high BC (ballistic coefficient). Generally, you can get really nice speeds and have to hold less wind with these calibers, while still maintaining acceptable recoil. If watching our shots and getting back on target quickly didn't matter we would most likely see some different calibers picked more often. 6mm and 6.5mm are very well supported with excellent projectiles for both hunting and practical precision. There are numerous projectile choices for these two calibers.

The external ballistics of many of the 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges are similar and they tend to only differ in minor ways. There are exceptions to this when it comes to using different cartridges. Generally, we see better barrel life from the 6.5mm as compared to the 6mm.

What chamber?

There are a good number of chambers used in practical precision and tremendously more for hunting. There are quite a few ways to start a process of elimination to decide what you want for yourself. The intended use would be where I would start. The practical precision chambers and hunting chambers will overlap, to some extent. I tend to look at choice of brass and projectiles once I know what the rifle will be used for. I won't consider a chamber/caliber that doesn't have excellent brass and projectiles available. For practical precision we also want to be certain that we can make good use of the cartridge. Some cartridges don't make good sense due to mag length and the inability to make good use of the better projectiles. Often, that is one of the things that is corrected in these 'newer' designs. Talk to your gunsmith and work through everything to be certain all of the parts will fall into place as they should. As previously mentioned, the 6mm and 6.5mm calibers are widely supported when it comes to projectiles. From here, I'll move into individual discussion of chambers to discuss specifics. Almost all of these rounds mentioned will fit in a short action and any that don't will be mentioned.

I'm going to cover the chambers that are used most often by the top 100 shooters. It doesn't mean you have to stick with one of these, but it does mean it's worth checking into.


Common chambers used by top practical precision shooters.  

6.5x47 Lapua is one of the better cartridges we have when it comes to 6.5 and practical precision. The Lapua brass is excellent and it has a small primer pocket and that helps us a lot on the reloading side of things. 6.5 Lapua is very forgiving to load for and is extremely inherently accurate. This chamber is very well liked and respected in a few different shooting disciplines.

6.5 Creedmoor is also a great chamber that sees wide use for practical precision. This is a great cartridge to reload for and is also a great choice for the shooter that doesn't reload yet because it is very well supported by ammunition manufacturers. You can order excellent ammo and it's now found at most sporting good stores. Norma brass is available for this cartridge and it uses a large primer pocket. Lapua has now released 6.5 Creedmoor brass and it has a small primer pocket.

260 Remington is another great 6.5 chamber. We don't see it as widely used as the two previously mentioned, for practical precision. Brass is available from Lapua and Norma. 260 Remington is another choice for the shooter that doesn't reload. Generally, 260 Remington costs a little more than 6.5 Creedmoor when it comes to purchasing factory ammo.

6 Creedmoor and 6 Lapua are each excellent chambers for the 6mm projectiles. The 6mm Creedmoor may be slightly favored for being able to get a little better speed, but both are excellent. We are seeing companies offer factory loaded 6 Creedmoor so it will begin to be another good choice for the shooter that doesn't reload.

Lapua is favored by some folks over the Creedmoor for a few reasons, one being the brass choices. Now that we have Norma brass for Creedmoor and Lapua small primer pocket brass for Creedmoor, the gap between those cartridges is a little closer. There will be people that prefer each of these.

6mm Dasher, 6mm SLR, and 6XC are other excellent choices for the 6mm caliber. I see a lot more 6XC than the other two mentioned and that may be because the 6XC is easy to buy brass for. The other two take a little more work so take a good look at what that means if those interest you.

There are others of course, but I'm just covering those that are used the most by the top 100 practical precision shooters. If you hand-load and are so inclined, you have many options available.


Some of the common hunting chambers that also cross over some into practical precision.

On the hunting side, I'll just cover some of the more popular rounds. I won't get into many of the big magnum cartridges as that can be an entire topic of its own. There will be a large number of hunting chambers not covered here, to keeping this from getting too long to read.

For starters, all of the chambers mentioned above are each excellent choices for hunting. When it comes to hunting it's vital to understand your limitations as a shooter and to also know the limitations of your projectile when it comes to speed and energy. This is a huge discussion in itself and won't be covered at this time. Sometimes we choose a different projectile for hunting, as compared to practical precision, but not always. A good study of projectiles is in order to really understand what you want to use for hunting and/or practical precision.

243 is a great 6mm choice for hunting and has been for many years. Good brass and projectiles are readily available. We do see 243 used for practical precision from time to time as well, but we don't see it used much by those top 100 practical precision shooters.

6.5 SAUM is a great cartridge that we see used for practical precision and for hunting. Norma brass is available, but has been scarce lately. To use the Norma brass it has to be necked down from 7mm to 6.5. The 6.5 SAUM moves the same 140 gr 6.5mm projectiles 200+ feet per second faster than the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 Lapua. It is an excellent hunting round and is used some in practical precision already and I believe we will see it used more. The 6.5 SAUM is a very inherently accurate round.

7mm-08 is another excellent hunting cartridge that crosses over a little to the practical precision side. 7mm-08 is similar in external ballistics to the 6.5 Creedmoor, but the 7mm-08 carries a lot more energy making it an excellent choice for hunting. The 7mm-08 does have more recoil than the 6.5 Lapua and Creedmoor, making it more difficult to spot shots from those barricade type positions. For a 7mm caliber, the 7mm-08 has great barrel life. This could be a good choice for some hunters that want a rifle to cross over from mostly hunting to the occasional practical precision match.

7 SAUM is an excellent hunting round, but won't be seen very often on the practical precision side. It carries tremendous energy and speed from a short action, getting very close to some 7 mag speeds. I've only seen this round used at a few matches and I don't imagine it will gain much more following on the practical precision side. For hunters this is an excellent short action choice and Norma brass is available, although somewhat scarce lately. The 7 SAUM is a very inherently accurate round and also crosses over into a different shooting sport.

223 and 308

There is a division where we see 223 and 308 used. 223 is very forgiving. Often, competitors will build a trainer rifle in 223. The 223 rifle will be almost identical to their match rifle, yet be chambered in 223. This can be good for practice and can also double for certain types of hunting. 308 is a caliber that is talked about very often and it is almost always compared to other cartridges. The 308 can be loaded with 155gr projectiles where it runs at faster speeds and then it becomes more competitive with the excellent 6mm and 6.5mm calibers, at average practical precision match distances. None of this information is meant as a knock against 308 in any way. It is widely used and accepted for many different purposes.

264 Win Mag, 7 Rem Mag, and 300 Win Mag

These are each built on long actions. We wouldn't consider these much for practical precision, but one will show up every once in a while to a match. These of course make excellent hunting calibers. Between these, each will have strengths and weaknesses as compared to each other. Barrel life, recoil, and ammo costs would be the main reasons we don't see these used at practical precision matches.

Other Chambers/Calibers/Matches

There are plenty of other choices for hunting and for practical precision. These chosen for this blog are simply those that are are used often by top competitors for practical precision and/or some I chamber a decent number of rifles in for competition and hunting. Just because a round isn't listed here doesn't mean it's a bad choice. Just do your homework and figure out what is best for you.

Lots of other types of matches are available for those interested. Some of the cartridges like the 7 SAUM, 264 Win Mag, 7 Rem Mag, and 300 Win Mag (for example) can cross over from hunting to some of the extended long range matches. When we get into extended long range we see a lot of other choices such as 300 Norma, 338 Lapua, Norma, and Edge, and 375 CheyTac to name just a few. This is well out of the spectrum of the intention of this topic and can be detailed further in the future.


Multiple Rifles and/or a Switch Lug Design:

Many of us end up with multiple rifles for different uses from hunting, to practical precision, extended long range, etc. There are times where we just can't make the same rifle fit each use well enough to keep from wanting another rifle. Or, we just like having more.

WTO (West Texas Ordnance) has an excellent Switch Lug for making it easy to swap barrels on hunting rifles or competition rifles. It serves many purposes and can certainly save money when you don't want to buy another action, stock/chassis, and scope. Rifles can be retrofitted with a Switch Lug or you can build that way from the start. If you are interested in the Switch Lug, get in touch with West Texas Ordnance, Texas Custom Rifles, or BullWorx. It's a neat design that fits many applications and no big tools are needed to complete the barrel swap so it's easy for most shooters to accomplish.

Get out and shoot!

If you have a 243 or a 308 (for example) that you want to use to get started then go for it. You can get out there and learn a lot and have a ton of fun. Don't let all of the caliber discussions keep you away.




There will be more blog entries in the future covering more long range topics. Thanks for reading and feel free to share this or my other blog entries if you think it will help someone.

Mil or MOA?

Choosing between Mil and MOA can be confusing and many folks have an opinion. This is just an attempt to break things down and dispel some of the bad information that is so often shared about this topic.

The real important choice between the two is simply picking what fits your use the best, learning it well, and ensuring you buy a scope that has ‘clicks’ and a reticle that match. There are a few people I’ve met over the years that don’t want them to match and they have a different system that I don’t see many folks use, so I’m not saying you are wrong if you follow a different system as long as you get your hits on target as fast and often as you could using a more common method. There are different types even within MOA and Mil, but I don’t find that important in most cases as long as you understand the system of your choosing. I will say that I think a person should ensure that everything they want to do will be available across the board for their choice, so consider apps, Kestrel, math, and actual field use (for example) to ensure your choice will be well supported.

I’ll start by saying that both work just fine and that I don’t think one is any faster than the other overall. If one part is faster with one of the systems and that’s the part that matters the most to you then go with that system. Keep in mind that someone else may have a different priority set, for good reason. Just be well studied using your gear. There are a lot of misunderstandings about the choice between these two. I’ve used MOA the longest, but prefer Mil now. Either is good so don’t feel like I am trying to convert you or say you chose wrong. I think a lot of these discussions go wrong when a person is not as interested in the facts as they are about defending their position, their gear choice, or even their hypothetical gear choice.


My main reasons for choosing Mil now are:

- More tree type reticle choices (My two main are the h59 and ebr-2c, but you can get an ebr-2c in MOA also) some folks don’t care for a tree at all and some of them are faster and better than me so either way is good

- Everyone I shoot with uses Mil so the communication is easy (although it’s not difficult to work around if you are in MOA, just talk in mph/values)

- The numbers are smaller. This won’t matter to everyone, but when I have 3 targets to engage quickly (sometimes as many as 5) the smaller numbers are easier to remember.

So, those are my reasons for going to Mil. Again, MOA is just fine if you prefer it.

Some of the issues that are incorrect that I see people use as reasons are simply due to a misunderstanding of how all of this works. So often we see a person make a decent argument for one and not the other and most of the time it’s just because the person is better trained on the one they are familiar with. Both are equally ‘easy’ if you learn.


Some of the things people misunderstand:

- Yards – Meters – Inches – Centimeters (metric vs imperial)… It really doesn’t matter what you want to use or what measurement is perceived by you to be easier, because you can use yards and inches with Mil just like you do with MOA. (I’ll explain)

- I haven’t found simpler math for either system once you interchange data types (and math isn't needed a lot anyway).

- Some folks say that you can get a closer zero with MOA than Mil and on certain scopes that may be true. I’ve never seen this as an issue because I’ve always had a good zero that I’m happy with and it isn’t true across the board as far as scope mechanics either. One example would be my Vortex Razor HD GII knob system. The way their knobs work, you aren’t limited on your zero by ‘clicks’. There are others as well and one of my other heavily use scopes (USO ER-25) works this same way, so my zero is in no way limited by ‘clicks’.


Onto the details I am trying to break down.


Why doesn’t it matter what system you think in as far as metric vs imperial?

To put it simply, you can interchange the systems just fine where math is concerned. Meaning I use yards, inches, and Mil and it’s in no way more difficult than when I used MOA. Some folks think you are using inches to determine drop or wind drift (for example) and you aren’t. So, if you are thinking in inches when you are thinking about drop or drift, you are adding unnecessary steps and you won’t be as fast as a person that isn’t. This is a big topic, but I’ll just say that many folks don’t understand how the environmentals affect data from day to day or even hour to hour. After a certain distance, your data will change to a point that will take you off target if you aren’t properly accounting for environmentals. So, if you think you can always remember your drop for 1000 yards, in inches or feet and you then convert that to MOA you are going to miss a lot and be slower than other folks that skip the inches part.

Some of this also gets into first focal plane vs second focal plane, but I don’t want to go there, this is a long read already and I'll make another blog about SFP and FFP. Just understand that if you want to measure with your reticle properly you have to know how to use it properly. If you are using SFP you have to know what magnification to be on for straight conversion and/or if you want a lower magnification, how to convert that.

Simply don’t think in inches for elevation or wind and if you are thinking in inches, you are wasting valuable time.

Think in Mil or MOA. The reason is because this is how we build our data cards, use our phone app, use our Kestrel, or some other method like the Whiz Wheel. When I have a target, I need to know my environmentals, my distance to the target, and my ‘clicks’ for my choice of wind and elevation (or reticle hold if you don’t ‘click’). So this is one point where some folks seem to think you are using inches or the metric system and you aren’t. It doesn’t matter if you are using yards, meters, inches, etc. You just figure your solution in MOA or Mil. To make a different example if you were shooting at a target and you missed it to the left or just want to see how far off center you are, you simply measure with your reticle for the correction. If you use Mil and you are .4 mil left, then you move your reticle over by .4 mil to make your correction (or dial the knob if you dial elevation and we are talking up or down, for example). It’s no different with MOA, if you missed by 2 MOA to the left, then you simply correct by the 2 MOA. You never look out at the target and try to figure out inches, centimeters, etc. There is no reason to and that just wastes time. You have a good measuring stick right in the reticle at your eye. This is why we choose a reticle that allows us to measure. If you don’t like a tree then just have a reticle like the SCR or MOAR that allows you to measure (for example).

Another example: I'm shooting targets at 500 yards and 1000 yards. I never think in my mind about how many inches of drop I have at 500 yards or 1000 yards, I just think of the correct Mil or MOA. Even if you are memorizing your dope, Mil and MOA are easier than inches that you have to convert back to Mil or MOA. Imagine for a moment, that your drop at sea level for 500 yards is 73.4 inches and your drop at 1000 yards is 351.9 inches. This data is a real example from one of my loads. If you are trying to remember inches, you have to remember 73.4" and 351.9" and then you have to be able to convert that to Mil or MOA quickly. If we skip the inches part, things get tremendously easier. In this exercise, remember that your data can and will change at some distance due to current environmentals so we can only memorize drop to certain distances anyway if we want to be precise. So, the same data for 500 yards and 1000 yards is simply 2.8 Mil and 8.5 Mil, or in MOA 9.65 MOA and 29.24 MOA, respectively. Examples like these are where it really begins to show up how much smaller the numbers are in MOA as compared to inches and then again when we compare Mil to MOA.


Since many of us can't remember all of that data, we make good data cards or use other methods like electronics or a Whiz Wheel. And, like everything else, we have a backup plan (or two, or three, or four). For distance, you can use meters or yards. Every match I go to is in yards so I stick with that, but you choose what works for you and the things you will be doing. When ranging with a reticle for distance, you can use meters, yards, inches, centimeters, etc. You have to have all of that worked out ahead of time anyway for data cards or simply click a different choice in your app, Kestrel, or Range Finder if you want to swap from yards to meters, for example. I don’t ever switch because I have no reason to, but you may.

Ranging:

When it comes to ranging with the reticle it still doesn’t matter if you choose Mil or MOA as long as you understand how to get the solution you need. You just have to find your method. My first choice is my rangefinder when possible. Then, I go to my reticle. When I use my reticle, most often I’ll use a phone app that does the math for me, but I always have secondary (and third, fourth, etc) plans such as the actual math or a Mildot Master (for example).

Keep a Rite in the Rain, or a notebook, or a grease pen and plastic, etc or good solar/battery powered calculator if you want to, but just do what works for you and have good back up plans. This is just what I have as a backup or for when I get to a stage where we have to do the math. This is another area where folks will say that one is easier than the other. For me, it is very similar.

Keep in mind that for me the math in long form is my last and slowest option. My first options for a solution when ranging with my reticle are very fast in comparison (phone app, Kestrel, Mildot Master). Try to not get too locked up on the math. Just find the right mathematical solution for you and use faster systems like the Mildot Master, phone app, Kestrel, or build your own data cards ahead of time. Keep the math handy if needed and know how to use it. Really dig into the math to figure out the ‘why’ if you want to. I like that, but a lot of folks don’t. If you do enjoy it, just do some research of your own and really dig in. MOA and Mil are just ways to measure and we can learn a lot by studying and understanding how those measurements work.

Two solutions for ranging:


For Mil:

Distance to target in yards = (height of target in inches/Image size in Mils) * 27.77

For MOA:

Distance to target in Yards = (height of target in inches/Image size in MOA) * 95.5


There are many ways to get to the answer and this is just what I picked. There are other mathematical solutions if you use meters or IPHY (inch per hundred yards) for example.

Some folks choose MOA over Mil for the precision of 1 click. 

This is valid to a point. Keep in mind the actual difference and just how small that difference is. Most MOA shooters use and prefer quarter MOA clicks on their scopes. If the difference mattered that much, those same shooters would choose eighth MOA clicks as opposed to quarter MOA clicks. Look at 1000 yards as an example. At 1000 yards a quarter MOA is 2.6” and a tenth Mil is 3.6” for a difference of an inch. Generally, if I see eighth MOA clicks on a scope the person using the scope uses it for bench-rest type shooting. The reason most shooters choose quarter MOA over eighth MOA is because eighth is simply too many clicks for what many of us do with our scopes and the quarter MOA clicks make more sense. For many people the very same thing is true between Mil and quarter MOA. In the real world of practical precision and hunting, the faster smaller numbers are picked by many folks for the ease of remembering them for multiple targets. So, MOA does get a very slight edge for the precision of 1 click - if this part is more important to you than the upsides of Mil then this would be one reason to choose MOA. Just remember the differences are very slight.  Also, keep in mind that you aren't limited to 'clicks'.  We are using a good measuring tool right in our reticle.


The last thing I'll say is that I often hear people say that they stick with MOA (or Mil) because it's what they know so it's easier. That really is a fine answer. Sometimes though, digging in a little deeper into both systems would allow a person to see the differences and make a good choice. So often, the reason a person sticks with one system is related to one of the misunderstood topics covered here. 

These photos are some of the various ways I get my data in the field and I also added different mathematical methods for ranging. I hope some of this helps someone. These are just my methods and I’m not in any way saying my methods are better than what works for you. None of what I've shared is new information. It's just intended to help a person choose and to remove some of the misinformation that is so often shared about this topic.



















































There will be more blog entries in the future covering more long range topics. Thanks for reading and feel free to share this or my other blog entries if you think it will help someone.